Talking With...
Mystery Science Theater 3000's
Mike J. Nelson
(the human)


by Rob Elder
You're marooned in space with two cynical, foul-mouthed robots and forced to 
watch really bad movies.
What do you do?

Turn it into a successful cult television show on cable.

Mystery Science Theatre 3000 ran for seven seasons on Comedy Central, spawned 
a major motion picture, and successfully moved to the Sci-Fi Channel two years 
ago. An anomaly in television, the Minnesota-based MST3K enjoys both a loyal 
cult following and wide critical success. The show has won a Peabody Award and 
has been nominated for two Emmys and several Cable Ace Awards.

Now on the heels of its 10th anniversary, MST3K is running strong. Rhino 
Homevideo continues to release videos and plans for a comic book are in place.

Mike J. Nelson served as headwriter on the show during its Comedy Central 
years, but came out from behind the camera when co-creator Joel Hodgson left 
the show in the fifth season.

Nelson keeps a busy schedule. Besides being one of the only humans on camera, 
he often composes music for the show, and has directed several episodes. He 
and the crew also spend countless hours each week in Best Brains' studio 
watching and scripting bad movies ad nauseam.

From the Satellite of Love set in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, Nelson took a break 
from filming the live-action sequences for the ninth season to talk with 
Oregon Voice about pop culture, the Midwest, and bad movies.

OV: Why do you think MST3K has such a loyal following? What attracts people to 
the show?

MN: I think it's a couple things. It's similar to what people do at home 
anyway, make fun of stuff that is just not up to par. Also, it's obvious that 
[the show] is not something that was created to be a big success. I think it's 
obvious to people because we like it and we've always done it that way. It's 
not some market research telling people that it's something they should watch. 
I think people sense that it's organic.

OV: Clive Barker has said no one gets up in the morning to make a bad movie. 
So how does a bad movie get made?

MN: I think it maybe true that no one goes out to make a bad movie, but 
there's also people's commitment and caring in movie doesn't always follow 
through- especially for movies that were intended for, in the '50s, the 
drive-in or [now] direct to video. These aren't people's dream projects but 
it's something that they take seriously at the time.

That actually helps for us, if people are at least serious about it, 
especially the actors and the people on-screen, because then if it falls short 
you can comment on that. There's a certain measure of sincerity necessary to 
make the jokes work really well.

OV: What do you find that most bad or b-movies have in common?

MN: I think it's shocking how incompetent the directors can be, that's 
probably the common thread. The actors . . . there are plenty of actors I 
don't particularly like in big budget movies and they're not really all that 
worse in b-movies. But the directing is what sets it apart, it makes you 
appreciate good directing when you see how terrible this can be.

OV: MST3K is a mired in pop culture and the University of Bowling Green is now 
offering bachelor degrees in pop culture studies. Do you think that pop 
culture is a valuable field of study or do you think it is something that is 
disposable?

MN: Ah . . . I think it's disposable. I don't think you should be looking for 
too much meaning in pop culture. I don't think there's much out there- even in 
the case of our show.

I think that our show is just meant to be funny and I think it succeeds at 
that, but there's no other deeper meaning in it. This is a thing that we take 
a lot of care in and think is worthwhile. We try, we work very hard to make it 
something that is hopefully a joyful experience, something that doesn't just 
join the chorus of voices saying, "Oh we're all going to Hell, so we might as 
well kill time 'til we die."

OV: MST3K is about getting back at movies, it's about vocalizing internal 
monologue. Shows like Beavis and Butthead and Pop Up Video have similar themes 
and have been very popular. Why do you think that is?

MN: People are just interested in nostalgia and things they've seen before. I 
think it's kind of interesting, I'm not sure what it means. I guess there's no 
end to deconstruction; people just love to see stuff broken down and redone.

OV: Self-reference, internal monologue, interacting with the screenÑwhat does 
that tell us about our culture?

MN: I think people make decisions almost instantaneously when they watch any 
form of media. They have an internal monologue and are very savvy about the 
media.

The media often ignores that fact or doesn't think it's true. They think that 
people just watch and accept what's given to them, but people watch things on 
many different levels.

Even in the case of a huge, successful movie like Titanic, I've got to believe 
that some people know it is not the greatest movie in the world.

I think filmmakers would be a little shocked- "People are making fun of my 
movie while it's happening!" - but I think it happens all the time.

OV: Who is making movies now that you think would end up on a show like MST3K 
in say, 25 years?

MN: I don't think his movies are rock-bottom awful- but James Cameron. He's so 
damn serious and it's really ham-fisted movie-making, there's nothing subtle 
about it at all.

They are technically well done, but the characters take themselves terribly 
seriously, and it just has this feeling of, "Look how important and grand this 
is."

I've noticed that theme through all his movies. He's basically, as a writer 
and as a director, very ham-handed.

OV: If you had an unlimited budget, what recent movie would you like to roast 
on the series?

MN: I think Twister. It was a really lousy movie with the worst dialogue. And 
Bill Paxton, the guy's just a big ham-roll of a face. He's another actor I 
just don't understand.

OV: You've done over a 150 episodes, and last night I saw Clint Eastwood in 
Revenge of the Creature. . .

MN: . . . yeah, it was his first film . . .

OV: Have you ever found in you many films any surprising, funny, or just 
bizarre small roles that prominent actors have tried to hide . . .

MN: Yeah, we did one called The Incredible Melting Man and in it, in a very 
small part as a redneck was director Jonathan Demme [Silence of the Lambs, 
Philadelphia]. This was in the early '80s and he had already done a couple 
films already. It's a really stupid part and like I said, it's very small but 
it took us about three runs-throughs to realize, "Wait a minute! It's Jonathan 
Demme." He had this flannel shirt on and was hairy . . . it was really stupid.

OV: Even in Revenge of the Creature you don't say, "Hey it's Clint Eastwood!" 
There's just a joke made: "Oh this guy is terrible, this is his last film . . 
."

You expect a lot of your audience. Do jokes get thrown out because the writers 
think no one will get them?

MN: We sort of play that game. Is this joke way too obscure? We try to make a 
pretty good guess at what we're doing and how many people are able to get the 
joke. We want to give the audience a fair crack at it. But you don't want to 
get too deep into that because you can only speculate too much. You just have 
to trust what you think is the funniest thing. But we don't try to put 
anything in that is obscure, it's genuinely something that we made each other 
laugh with.

OV: You've said in past interviews the basic philosophy of MST3K is, "Milk as 
much money as you can off a puppet show." Has it become more than that?

MN: [laughs] I hope I was being facetious when I said that.

OV: I think you were.

MN: It's always been important to all of us. And I think over the years, I 
even got more respect for the writing process itself. We've worked harder this 
season with the movies, to make sure everything we put in there is at least an 
attempt at a joke. As far as our writing, I think we've steadily tried to 
improve it. It's always meant a lot to me.

OV: Here's some questions about production. Mystery Science is a show that is 
filmed in the Midwest and you're from Wisconsin. It has a very Midwestern 
feel. Is there anything, in your opinion is universally Midwestern? How would 
the show be different if it were say, filmed in Los Angeles?

MN: I think that the tone of it, you're right, is very Midwestern. We can't 
escape that. I feel that there's a sense of fairness about that- most 
television shows are filmed on either coast. I think that the style of humor 
in the show is also Midwestern in that there's kinda of an "Aw Shucks" 
attitude that allows us to get away with the things we say about this. You go 
to L.A. and you'll hear people who work in the [entertainment] field talking 
very cynically about the field they work in. They make you think that they are 
not part of the machineÑ "Yeah, I work out here but man, some of the stuff we 
produce is just so awful."

When you're from the Midwest, you can say that because you're on the outside. 
It wouldn't work to move it to L.A., because then we would become part of the 
machine; we would know the people we were talking about and it would change 
the tone of the show.

OV: As a Midwesterner then, how did you view the movie Fargo?

MN: Ah well . . . I hold a very minority opinion of that film. It's a pretty 
hateful little film. To me, it's so obvious that the filmmakers hated the 
people they were showing and depicting, so much so that they violently stabbed 
and killed and did horrible things to them. And I think at heart, the film is 
simply about making fun of Midwestern accents and to me, that's not enough of 
a film. But I should add that it's a very beloved film even here and in 
Minnesota.

OV: Do you ever find yourself riffing off good movies or movies you go out to 
see in the theater? Are you able to turn that off?

MN: Yeah I think, if a story involves me. But, to a certain extent, the magic 
of films is taken away a little bit in that you're often looking at the way 
it's shot, or looking at the lighting when you should be involved. That's just 
knowing too much about how they're done and what went into it. But if a story 
is involving, I don't comment it.

OV: Would you mind playing word game with us?

MN: Sure.

OV: Say the first thing that comes into your head when I say: Joel Schumacher.

MN: Evil.

OV: Roger Corman.

MN: Incompetent.

OV: Godzilla.

MN: Awful.

OV: Beverly Garland.

MN: Oh, so lovely.

OV: Joe Don Baker.

MN: Huge and angry.

OV: Help me out here: Cool Hand Luke, Cape Fear, GoldeneyeÑ how does Baker 
score roles in high-end Hollywood productions?

MN: I swear, if you stick around long enough you will have six careers. Tommy 
Lee Jones is an example. He's been in it for years and years. You just stick 
around and suddenly, you get another career. It's amazing, just hang in there 
and you'll be famous.

OV: Do you know if Baker really holds a grudge for Mitchell?

MN: Yeah, it's been fairly well confirmed.

OV: How has it been confirmed?

MN: Originally we got a letter from someone who was a production assistant on 
a film that Baker was on. He was telling a friend about Mystery Science and 
Joe Don was within earshot and came up and said, "Oh those bastards . . ." I 
mentioned it at a press conference with about 150 reporters, and they all were 
amused about it so they ran called Joe Don Baker, at least a good dozen or so 
of them. And so they reported that he was in fact angry and he said, "I don't 
want to talk about it anymore and if I ever see those guys, I'm gonna kick 
their ass." [laughing] That's about the extent of it.

OV: But that doesn't exactly keep you from doing it, does it?

MN: Oh no, no, no.

OV: Does it fuel it at all?

MN: Oh yeah, I think it's fun. I'm sure if we met him he wouldn't. . . I don't 
know, maybe if we met him, he'd be truly angry. We did see him at a hotel 
once. We are out in Pasadena and he was standing in a lobby, and here was all 
of us standing there. We kinda went a little bit out of the way, we didn't 
want to get in his face and push the point.

OV: Well especially you. YouÕre really the only human character . . .

MN: I'm the one he's going to take off after, start pounding on . . . 

OV: It's been said that Monster A Go Go and Manos: Hands of Fate are among the 
worst movies you've ever done. But you ever found ones that you've wound up 
enjoying?

MN: Um, not wholly. Grading on a curve, you take pleasure in the fact that 
there was a certain energy about the movie or there was a moment that actually 
worked. That happens now and again. I really liked doing the movie, Horror at 
Party Beach, which we did this last season. They set out to do this little 
beach romp movie, and it had moments in it that we cut out that were actually 
kind of scaryÑ a little too gory for TV even. It was kind of effective and I 
liked the music in it. So there are certainly moments, but the movie as a 
whole was largely incompetent.

OV: Do you have any plans for the 10th Anniversary? Any specials coming up?

MN: There's only the nearest talk about it, we haven't arranged anything yet. 
There's still another year to go.

OV: I think you'll be just fine, ratings have been holding.

MN: They've gone up since we've been on the Sci-Fi Channel and I think that is 
because we seem to fit in there, it makes a lot of sense. I think also, it's 
nice for them to have something that lightens up their channel. Theres a lot 
of stuff they take very seriously on that channel, and obviously sci-fi people 
take their stuff very seriously. So to have break from that is a nice thing 
for them.

OV: Do you find yourself referencing that? Have you had to change the show the 
tiniest bit to compete with reruns of The Incredible Hulk and Battlestar 
Galactica?

MN: [laughs] We didn't really change the tone of the show, but there have been 
moments where we'll have a joke in about a Sci-Fi Channel. We'll think twice 
about it, but they've actually been like, "Oh no, make fun of it, that's 
fine."

OV: You got your start with stand-up comedy. There has been a swarm of 
comedians who've gotten their own showsÑ from Roseanne to Drew Carey and 
Seinfeld. The stand-up comedy circuit has kind of died down over the past 
couple years and there's no longer a boom. What's going to happen to TV when 
they loose all the stand-ups to harvest?

MN: I don't know . . . I think you're probably going to have like Internet 
stars, guys who are really good at the Internet will get TV shows.

OV: With fans screaming for another convention, why hasn't there been one?

MN: Very, very difficult to mount and very expensive. They don't really make 
any money for us. They're something we love to do, but the amount of energy is 
just enormous. It's very difficult to fit it in while we're in production. So 
that's why they are so rare. But I'm sure there's much talk about one for our 
10th Anniversary, if there's still interest. That's kinda what we're shootin' 
for . . .